S3E22: Discussing the new documentary ‘The Officials’ with producers Sarah Archambault and Margo Guernsey

High Turnout, Wide Margins Credits
Managing Editor: Rebecca Smith
Managing Producer: Aaron Hay
Associate Producer: Katie Quinn
Digital Producer: Mark Johnson

Transcription of the episode is as follows:

Sarah Archambault: I hope the world does not demand another film. I want these films to sufficiently celebrate and honor your work in a way that communicates to enough people that you all are safe, protected and honored in your professional lives and in the field.

[High Turnout Wide Margins Introduction]

Brianna Lennon: Welcome back to another exciting episode of High Turnout Wide Margins. This is Brianna Lennon. I’m the County Clerk for Boone County, Missouri, and with me is my co-host –

Eric Fey: Eric Fey, Director of Elections in St. Louis County, Missouri.

Brianna Lennon: And today we have a really fun episode, because we are talking about the second awesome film about elections administration to come out in the past few years, “The Officials,” and with us are –

Sarah Archambault: My name is Sarah Archambault. I’m a producer and director on the film. I’m based in Providence, Rhode Island, and in addition to being a producer on independent documentaries, I am the director of a new initiative at the Shorenstein Center at Harvard Kennedy School called documentary film in the public interest.

Margo Guernsey: I’m Margo Guernsey. I am also a producer and director on the film. I’m based in Watertown, Massachusetts, which is basically part of Boston, and I work as an independent director and producer, and I also teach producing.

Brianna Lennon: And so, one of the reasons we’re talking to you today is because [of] “The Officials,” but was hoping to start even earlier with a discussion about “No Time to Fail,” and what has brought both of you into working with elections administrators, why you thought it was important work and kind of what has led you to even doing the second film now.

Margo Guernsey: I actually want to share a fun fact before we dive deep. While Sarah and I were making “No Time to Fail,” I was driving from Boston down to Rhode Island all the time for filming, and I listened, I basically – what’s it called when you? Binge listened to the podcast on my drive. It’s an hour-long drive, so it’s a lot of fun to be here with you after having binge listened to the podcast as I was learning about election administration.

You asked why we wanted to even get into this. We, in different ways, we both consider ourselves civics nerds, and I’ll let Sarah talk more about that from her perspective. I have also done a lot of work in labor and even in union organizing, and a lot of my filmmaking is about what, you know, showing the work of regular people and lifting up the voices of what regular people are doing, which is often invisible. No matter how much people or politicians talk about it, it still is quite invisible in our culture and in our society. And so, once – Sarah is actually the one who had the idea of this amazing film journey, but when she reached out to me, it made a lot of sense to me to pull back the curtain and then see: What are people doing back there to make sure that we can vote? What does it take to do this work? So, that’s why I was engaged from the beginning.

Sarah Archambault: So, just to come off that, you know, when I approached Margo, I think that my, my primary idea, or the primary interest that was driving me had nothing to do with, like, threats to election workers – this kind of, this whole culture around intense scrutiny over election administration hadn’t even knocked on the door yet, at the time, when we had the first germ for this idea. What was happening at the time was a different germ called COVID-19, and what we were really interested in, to start, was just how the heck you guys were going to pull this off. How were you going to be able to – we were in a major presidential election year, there, people were, at that time, when we were talking about that – there was no vaccine, people were washing their groceries. Like this was a real time of uncertainty and not being sure about what the path forward was for any of us when it came to dropping your kid off to school – let alone voting.

One of the things we really try to pay attention to as documentary filmmakers is not to tell stories –like not to swoop in, shoot a bunch of footage and swoop out and say, “I know what that story is, and I’m going to tell people what that, all that means.” We are much more interested in telling stories, either from within our own communities or ones where we take a lot of time to understand, learn and know that community, so that we can tell those stories well and accurately, And so, with “No Time to Fail,” I would say as a Rhode Islander and as an adjacent Rhode Islander, as people who were connected to political culture here – we felt like we were equipped to tell that story.

Shooting a film during COVID is almost as challenging as running elections during COVID, but then, when it came to our second film, “The Officials,” we now felt like we really, we had real connections in the election administration community. We had built trust, and that trust piece is one of the most important pieces for documentary.

Eric Fey: I know we definitely want to talk a good amount about “The Officials” during this episode, but I think in order to do that, we have to talk a little bit more about “No Time to Fail” and how you got to “The Officials.” I just want to say having both of you on is a real treat for me. I love “No Time to Fail.” I have shown it at least a half dozen times in different places. So, to talk a little bit more about “No Time to Fail,” you know, what have you seen and heard from folks in and out of the election community now that it’s been out for two or three years?

Margo Guernsey: The most meaningful reaction for me has been the number of election officials around the country who say things like, “Are you sure that wasn’t Nevada? You’re sure you were in Rhode Island?” or “Are you sure that wasn’t,” you know, “Orlando or Florida,” wherever, they are, and to have made something that resonates so deeply across the country in rural and urban spaces, at, you know, amongst local election officials who run small offices part time to, you know, folks who are running the state election system – that means a lot as a filmmaker, and that’s been how it, you know, very consistent, a very consistent reaction.

Sarah Archambault: One that I got consistently, every single time I’m able to be in person with – what would I say? Civilians – you know, watching the film. Who are not in the industry, not in the election administration industry. Where they come up to me afterwards and they say, “Why don’t I get to see more movies like this? Why are these not more available?” And I think to me, it’s not just about the type of film or filmmaking that we did, but that there is some, there is a hunger, I think, out there, for films about regular people doing extraordinary things, right? Especially these things that affect so many of us, but that maybe seem a mystery. So, it was nice to hear that there’s a real public interest in your work and in storytelling about your work.

Brianna Lennon: So obviously the “No Time to Fail” story really covered the behind the scenes of how an election is administered. If people haven’t seen it – A: they absolutely should. But B: it does follow both at the state level – because Rhode Island, like most states, has a state and a local component of elections administration – it follows both of them very well to show how they interact with each other. How local election authorities had to do their part of the process and work with the state on a lot of different issues, but, like you said, it really still, even though every state has different ways that they administer elections, resonated with so many people. When you were looking at creating “The Officials,” how did you select the people, the voices for this film?

Margo Guernsey: You know, I was the one who had the joy of meeting over zoom with people, election officials from around the country, and quite frankly, we could have gone to anywhere. Every single conversation I had could have been, “Okay, let’s talk next steps about when we bring in a film crew.” We chose the folks in this film because we wanted to be very mindful of having a diverse set of people, and what I mean by diverse in this context is rural, conservative areas where, quite frankly, some of the most intense attacks had had been happening – especially in 2021 – or the most intense questioning of their integrity, of the integrity of the work. And then we wanted to have an urban area, so that we would have both urban and rural, and then we wanted to make sure that we would have both local, smaller offices and larger jurisdictions and state level.

And so, that landed us with, at the state level, Megan Wolf, who was the State Director of Elections for Wisconsin. She filled the box of the state level. And then we are in Detroit with the elections team there. That’s our urban center. And then we’re in Ohio, Defiance County, Ohio, which is Northwestern Ohio, for those who don’t know. That filled the box of rural area, and the nice thing about Ohio is it’s a bipartisan system, which is not true everywhere. So, you have a Democrat and a Republican working together in the same office, and we’re able to show that in the film. And then we’re in Marion County, Florida, to be in just a very rural area run by somebody who is elected to a ticket, but also, you know, is very nonpartisan in his work.

So, it was that balance. We were really looking for the balance of showing all the aspects of administration, all the different ways it’s done, and in areas that reflect the political spectrum of the country.

Sarah Archambault: But of course, you know there’s a special alchemy to casting a documentary film. So, while we had these goals that Margot outlined in mind, so much of it comes just from, like, someone’s personality, how comfortable they are in front of a camera. These are, like, those kinds of special things that you can’t predict, but you have to go, kind of, seeking out. And I think the other thing we really prioritized was trying to have really open and transparent communications with these wonderful folks because one thing that was happening at the time when we cast “No Time to Fail,” these folks were really eager for people to just understand what the work was. That’s why they chose to be part of this, and now with this, you know, incredible cast – I call them a cast because that’s what, you know know what I mean – these wonderful participants in the documentary. For these folks, they really wanted people to understand their passion for the work, how much they actually deeply care about this work, and that was true for both films, but also like what they were up against. They wanted to be able to tell their story from their perspective. Lots of news is telling us about what election officials are going through, statistics here and there, attrition, you know, things that are happening within the field, but there weren’t, there aren’t really enough stories directly from the perspective of election officials, and that’s why they were eager to take part. So, you’re having to find those special, that special like great on camera, willing to take a risk to be in a film, to let a camera follow you around – that’s uncomfortable, and these folks committed to it, even for some of whom, it was terribly outside of their comfort zone, but also just really wanting to communicate this story from their own perspective. So,I would say those were added components to the mix.

[High Turnout Wide Margins Mid-break]

Eric Fey: I would like to know if you two can talk at all about how this film came together. I have no concept of what might go into the production of it, you know, obviously, I assume there has to be some kind of funding vehicle for it, and there has to be some interest amongst some people, I mean, was, with this subject is, is that more difficult than some other subjects you’ve done, or was there a groundswell of interested funders and so forth that were willing to help make this come to fruition?

Sarah Archambault: You know, Eric, people were not that interested, with “No Time to Fail,” and it ends up that that film, in some ways, was a bit of a canary in the coal mine, you know, capturing a changing public conversation with the idea of election administration. So, that film kind of was witness to that change in the culture, right? So, at that time, we were fortunate that there were some funders who understood, saw what we saw, and jumped on board with us. So, we were really fortunate in finding those folks and getting them excited about our materials. Second film – what was lucky is that we had created those funding relationships with the first film and those folks, in large sum, came back and helped us make this one. So, from a funding perspective, we really had to break down some doors on that first film to get them to see the significance. With the second film, because the culture had shifted so much, people understood the urgency much more deeply.

Margo Guernsey: Yeah, I, you know, it really ultimately, though, I would say that it was, it’s notable that it ended up being the same funders, basically, with one exception, from “No Time to Fail” that came onto this film. It’s never easy to convince people to come onto material that’s exciting, engaging and also educational. So, this film has been very different. We were in four states: Florida, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, and we needed to be able to move quickly if something were happening that we wanted to film. So, we chose to have local crews in all of those four states, and so, when things happened quickly, we sometimes managed it from home, and whenever possible, I went for the filming. So, I got to see a lot of places. We got to meet a lot of people. And it was, I actually think it’s great to work with local crews in each location, because they built relationships with the election administrators they were filming in each location.

Brianna Lennon: So, I mean, I think we have a little bit of time left, but I’m really interested to know, this is now your second one – are you planning to do a trilogy of elections administration, documentaries or do you think that this kind of encapsulates everything, or are you just kind of leaving it open ended at this point?

Margo Guernsey: We clearly don’t have a plan for a trilogy. We’re not organizing. We don’t have plans for a next film to tell you about, you know, it was, it felt urgent to make a follow up film because of what was happening in the field. That urgency, I don’t, you know, while none of us know what will happen over the next, you know – between now and Election Day or between now and January – I don’t feel like there is currently, the urgency to tell the story again in film – I don’t currently feel that. Maybe that will change? I hope it doesn’t. I hope things just run smoothly, but we’ll see.

Sarah Archambault: Yeah, I think, I have a similar answer, which is just if – how do I say this? I hope the world does not demand another film. I want these films to sufficiently celebrate and honor your work in a way that communicates to enough people that you all are safe, protected and honored in your professional lives and in the field. I can see a situation where we might consider another film if things significantly change around election administration culture again. I think one thing that I do want to be clear on is that, though we have no plans for another film, like, Margot and I are not the kinds of filmmakers who walk away from a subject matter or a community who have trusted us and whom we really care about, and so, you know, let’s hope another film is not needed, but if another film is needed, if we need more communication tools for these stories, you know, I think we’re the kind of people who would step in.

Eric Fey: I think most election administrators I know would love nothing more than to kind of go back to being the anonymous people in the background you know, doing their work, but probably without exception, they all appreciate the opportunity for their story to be told, and I think that’s a pretty universal sentiment, but having the choice, they would all much prefer the story never needed to be told because of, you know, what has transpired. I mean, do you feel like there are any kind of untold stories in this field? Are things you saw that you wish you could have fleshed out more in either of these two projects you’ve worked on?

Sarah Archambault: Yeah, I mean, I think there’s a, I have a couple of different answers for that. I think one of the things, and again, like because cinematic storytelling, like, you really are trying to cut things down to their essence – you don’t necessarily get to really let things like air out and see these differences. Like, so for example, one of the things that I find to be fascinating, and that a lot of people don’t realize, is that the same person who’s like giving you your dog license, or, like, sometimes paying your tax or dealing with your tax bill, etc. are the same people who are managing your elections. That these folks are working hard – and like we didn’t, neither film, we really and because, of course, every single election jurisdiction is managed differently, like this is not necessarily universal – but I find that to be really, really interesting because it it’s something that we couldn’t really show or see, and it’s not visually really interesting for storytelling. But that, to me, that there are these human beings who are so central to the administration of all of your entire life.

Eric Fey: So, just curious, was there anything, to your mind, especially unique about profiling or chronicling or working with election officials, or were there a lot of similar traits or was there something in particular about election officials that you haven’t seen in some of the other projects you’ve done?

Sarah Archambault: With election officials, something that I think is really unique that I have not encountered in other stories telling spaces, is the dedication to nonpartisanship and how it’s almost like religion. It’s to a point that I just have not seen practiced in other places with such meticulous care, and that, to me, was something that was surprising, that I did not expect, and to see people navigate that has been fascinating and pretty eye opening. So, that’s something that was really special that I discovered.

Margo Guernsey: I just wanted to reiterate and take one step farther what Sarah is saying about the bipartisan nature – or bipartisan and nonpartisan nature of your work. I think that a lot of Americans have a lot to learn from that, from the shared mission of doing something well and doing it together – even if maybe there’s a difference of opinion on some topics, but the ability to come together and get something done that is for all of our common good. And as somebody who comes from a very liberal part of the country. I come from Massachusetts. Having spent at least for part of the filming a lot of time in a conservative, you know, very conservative area of Ohio and a very conservative area of Florida, it felt healing to me. So, I spend so much time in the anxiety of what the future of our country holds, and spending time with people who the media will tell me are not like me or might disagree with me and realizing how much we have in common – I mean, we probably have 95% of our goals in common. We all want the same things for our families. We all want the same things for our future. We all want the same things out of our government, right? That has been very healing for me, and I think maybe one of the only spaces in America where that is happening right now is an election administration where you all, you know, have built a bipartisan system where everyone works together. So, if there were a way, if there’s a very small way – I’m not so sure the film has that as a call to action, but the more that we can express the value of this nonpartisan space to other people, I think there’s a lot for all of us to take away from it.

Brianna Lennon: You’ve been listening to High Turnout Wide Margins, a podcast that explores local elections administration. I’m your host, Brianna Lennon alongside Eric Fey. A big thanks to KBIA and the Election Center for making this podcast possible. Our Managing Editor is Rebecca Smith. Managing Producer is Aaron Hay. Our Associate Producer is Katie Quinn, and our Digital Producer is Mark Johnson. This has been High Turnout Wide Margins. Thanks for listening.