S3E21: Perspectives from Brand New Election Administrators
In this episode, hosts Eric Fey and Brianna Lennon speak with some new election administrators in the state of Missouri – all of whom have been in the job less than four years, and are now preparing for their first presidential election.
They spoke about Rachel Lightfoot in Polk County, Heather Hall, the Republican Director of the Election Board in Clay County, and Adrienne Lee in Vernon County. They each spoke about how the job has been doing so far, some of the challenges they’ve faced and what they are looking forward to in November.
High Turnout, Wide Margins Credits
Managing Editor: Rebecca Smith
Managing Producer: Aaron Hay
Associate Producer: Katie Quinn
Digital Producer: Mark Johnson
Transcription of the episode is as follows:
Adrienne Lee: I think that it’s an important job, and it needs to be done with fair and balanced people. And it’s important. It’s an important role for the county to work. And, I guess, that’s my main goal – I just want to make sure everything works right. Do what’s best.
[High Turnout Wide Margins Introduction]
Brianna Lennon: Welcome to another exciting episode of High Turnout Wide Margins. This is Brianna Lennon, I’m the County Clerk from Boone County, Missouri, and with me is my co-host –
Eric Fey: Eric Fey, Director of Elections in St. Louis County, Missouri.
Brianna Lennon: And today we’re talking to –
Rachel Lightfoot: Rachel Lightfoot, Polk County Clerk.
Eric Fey: So Rachel, what we’re trying to do today is collect vignettes from folks who are newer into the job about what they think of it, and some of the challenges. Some of the good things, as well. And so why don’t you start off by, like we do with anybody we have on this podcast, a little bit about yourself, your background, and how you came to be county clerk.
Rachel Lightfoot: Okay. I actually come from a banking and finance background, I spent the past 11 years prior to coming into the County Clerk’s office as a banker. I filled many, many roles within that 11 years. I came into the County Clerk’s position via group text. I had been involved in politics for almost 16/17 years prior to that but on a different side of politics. I was a campaign treasurer for many, many – most of those years. So, I worked on it totally back side and decided to take a leap and be a candidate myself.
Brianna Lennon: On the group chat, what was it that pushed you over into saying, “Hey, I can do that. That is something that I want to do.”
Rachel Lightfoot: One of the electeds texted me and said, “Are you ready to be clerk yet?” And I was like, “Let me let me think,” and I made a couple phone calls, and actually, the very first phone call I made was to the governor – he and I, those that know me, they know I’m his treasurer on his campaign and still serve in that capacity. We are very, very longtime friends. So, he’s my mentor, basically. So, my first phone call was to him, and it was, “Do you think I have what it takes?” I’m more of a quiet person. I’m not one to pick a fight or go after anything. So, and I know that that job requires a lot, so he was my first phone call. And then, of course, speaking with my husband too, and making sure he knew, like, if I get into public office, you know, I mean, our lives become public. And just encouragement from the others. I think just knowing that I had support was like, “Okay, I’m ready. It’s my turn to try this and see if I can do it.”
Eric Fey: I’m curious with your political background, and working in politics or on campaigns is a lot different than actually running the elections, and so, what were your expectations going into this job?
Rachel Lightfoot: I knew this office had lots of requirements and lots of responsibilities, and a lot of them I didn’t know a lot about specifically. I knew I was going to be the budget officer. I knew I was in charge of the financial statement. I knew elections. And that is what all I knew going in. I did not realize the HR payroll, the accounts payable, the tax levy process and I could keep going. But I didn’t realize all that other but long hours, hard work, and high stress is not something I was not accustomed to.
Brianna Lennon: Given everything that you know now when you have been in the role for a few years. What advice would you give to somebody considering becoming an election official?
Rachel Lightfoot: Do your research. Go spend time in that office asking questions or if you don’t want to go to that specific office that you’re going to be running in, go to a neighboring office, go somewhere and ask questions, and find out what it really is. I’m a firm believer in going in, eyes open instead of just eyes closed and hoping for the best. That’s an easy way to fail fast. If you do your research, make sure you have – you don’t have to know it all, but have an understanding of what you are accepting and taking on.
Brianna Lennon: Alright, are there specific things that I mean – you’ve had enough time and you have deep roots in your county, but are there specific things that you already know might pop up as we get closer to November? That you’re that you’re trying to address before we get to that point?
Rachel Lightfoot: My biggest one right now that I’m trying to address is election workers. Polk County is a strong conservative county, so Democrats are few and far between. And so, I have been working on my election worker list for over a month already just trying to get names and contacts of people that I could get to work the polls. I’ve already reached out to the schools to look at starting the youth program. It’s never been done in Polk County before, and I foresee the need because I don’t have enough bodies to fill all the roles. So, getting youth involved is, to me, this is a prime opportunity to do that and start building some interest in – getting those kids to be interested in their rights, the processes that make their world turn. So, I’ve already started reaching out to the schools to work on that. I will have meetings set up with law enforcement officers soon to address security, and then – what else have I done? You can’t see it all. You can’t forecast at all. You can’t stop at all, but you just try to be as prepared as you can.
Eric Fey: We just heard from Rachel Lightfoot. She’s the county clerk in Polk County, Missouri. She was appointed as the county clerk in July 2021, and then took office as the elected county clerk in January 2023.
Next, we’ll hear from Heather Hall. She’s been the Republican Director of Elections at the Clay County, Missouri, Board of Elections. She’s been in that position since January of this year.
Brianna Lennon: So, our first question that we always ask whatever guests we’re talking to is how you got involved in elections in the first place?
Heather Hall: You know, I started in politics and elections in 2014 when I ran for office, and I ran for elected office in Kansas City, Missouri as a city council woman for Kansas City, Missouri. So, from 2015 to 2023, I was city councilwoman in Kansas City, Missouri, and I was termed out in August of 2023. And then I just kind of was at home, making cookies, hanging out, trying to decide where I was gonna go next, and a friend of mine who was a commissioner for the Clay County Board of Election Commissioners reached out to me and said, “Would you be willing to come in and talk about this position? We’re looking for a Republican judge to replace our current one, and we would like to see if you would be interested.” And so, I’m not at all where I need to be as far as my education. I’m still a learner, for sure.
Eric Fey: I think you’ve been through one election already – in the April municipal election. So, obviously, we have some much bigger elections later this year, but what were your impressions that first time around?
Heather Hall: Sure.
Eric Fey: What was surprising to you?
Heather Hall: Well, the most surprising thing really is so much back work that has to happen to make that day happen. As I took this role, so many of my friends were saying, “Well, what do you do the other nine months? You know, there’s just April, August, and November. What possibly could you have to do?” And so, you know, finding out what really has to happen is extraordinary – all the poll workers, the poll worker training, all the manuals that need to go into it, and then, of course, all the wraparound of how to make sure the equipment is tested and ready to go. As a regular voter, which I’ve always been, that was very new to me. It just didn’t seem like there was that much to do, and I feel bad now, on this end of it, not giving the credit to everybody who was doing it all these years. I didn’t give you the credit for how much work you really had to put in it because I didn’t know what I didn’t know. So, I was really an uneducated voter, and you all do a ton of work on the back end to get the votes done right, so we have fair and honest elections. And that’s not as easy as those three buzzwords are to say, right? And so, congratulations to all of you, and I’m excited to be a part of that.
Brianna Lennon: What I am I think most curious about is the general atmosphere of elections is pretty contentious anyway. When you were going through the process, did you think of it as a contentious, like highlighted position? Because I think for a lot of people that were in it before and have left, they saw the evolution of it going from a very kind of quiet, under noticed position to now being talked about quite a bit, and you’re coming into it already being talked about quite a bit. Did you like that aspect of it?
Heather Hall: Well, let me just first say I come at it from a different perspective than people who are already in it. The people who are already in it did not sign up for a position that was threatening, or adversarial, or potentially even violent, right? They don’t sign up for that. You don’t go, “I’m gonna be in elections, and I think it can be unsafe.” I come at it from a different perspective, because I was already in a public figure role for so long, and I’ve already had people look me in the eye and say they’re going to kill me because of my vote. So, I come at it from a different perspective. So, for me, I guess my threshold is higher, because I’m used to that – sad to say. So, that’s already something I think about. I don’t think about whether something’s going to be violent or to do it. I think something if it’s useful and it’s valuable, and I can either a) I can make something better for people – then I’m going to sign up for that all day long, and you sometimes just have to bite the bullet on that, right? And take the hit because it’s for the greater good, and that’s the way I look at it.
Brianna Lennon: What part are you looking forward to?
Heather Hall: I’m looking forward to just letting people come out and vote. I get so excited on election day. I’m just one of those people who I cannot wait to count to see how many votes have been cast, you know, I get so excited when people actually are exercising their opportunity to come and vote because we live in America, and we get to do this. And I am always disappointed when the number, the percentage of people who vote is so low. I don’t understand why they don’t take advantage of that. I want people to feel excited about that like I do. So, regardless of who wins – the exciting thing, for me, is on Election Day is getting that out. And really, it’s kind of a high at the end of the day, you think everyone’s gonna be just dropped because they’ve been there since 3 am, and, you know, it’s midnight by then or whatever time it is. You think they’re all going to be just zombies at that point. No, they’re not – everyone is still on a high, they’re so excited, and they’ve loved the day, and even the poll workers – who are getting paid a nominal amount – I call them volunteers. Nobody else calls them volunteers, but they really are in all essence. They’re still excited, and everybody’s excited because they were part of this exciting process that not everybody in the world gets to do. So, to me, that’s super exciting.
Eric Fey: Anything else you’d like to point out as a newbie that people don’t think about? Or you’d just like to highlight?
Heather Hall: Yes, I would like to just say, I think a) that this podcast is a really great tool because what happens is the majority of people don’t understand what’s happening, and I thought I knew a lot because I had been on the elected side – I knew how to vote, and I knew how to file. That was it. I thought I knew more, but I really didn’t until I got on this side. I’m like, “Oh my gosh.” So, by you all putting a spotlight on this industry and on what it takes to be a part of this industry, it really just really elevates the brand of people who are clerks and election officials. And elevates it to show people this is a profession that’s valuable, necessary and takes highly – I don’t want to say, credentialed people in specific areas to make it all work. Whether you’re in the legal field, or you’re in the technology field, or the marketing field – all of those have to come together well in order to do this. So, I say kudos to you guys, what you’ve been doing, and how you’ve been managing it so well, especially since the last several election cycles, like you said, are only getting more intense. I really admire what you’re doing, and, so keep this up with this podcast. I love it.
Brianna Lennon: Do you have – if somebody is thinking about it? Do you have any advice for things that you now wish that you had kind of known at the time?
Heather Hall: Well, you know, it’s like anything – ”it’s gonna be easy. It’s no big deal. Just go and do that.” Well, it’s not really easy. It’s a lot of work, and anything that’s important is a lot of work. So, I say if you’re ready to do hard work, and you’re really ready to make a difference, you should check out this profession. It’s really stimulating in a completely different way than the other side of it is, and I didn’t think that it would be and I thought it would be probably a little boring, quite honestly, compared to what I had done. And so, it’s opened my eyes to realize that it’s not, and it’s just a different kind of exciting. So, I would like people to be in this industry, I think they’re valuable, and we need them. We need good people who really care about it to be – because like any industry, we’re all looking for good people, and we need more people like, like us to do that.
[High Turnout Wide Margins Mid-break]
Brianna Lennon: We just heard from Heather Hall – the Republican Director of the Election Board in Clay County who took office since January of this year.
Next up is Adrienne Lee. She’s the county clerk in Vernon County, Missouri. She’s been working in the election office since 2021, and took office as elected clerk in 2023. She worked the midterm election in 2022, but this is her first presidential election.
Eric Fey: So, Adrienne, thanks for doing this with us today. So, the way we always like to start with folks is to ask them, what got them into this? How did they become, in your case, county clerk?
Adrienne Lee: Oh, that’s hilarious. I was a hairdresser and business owner for 18 years, and I went out for hip surgery and made a joke with the previous county clerk, and decided to put my application in, and he hired me as the election clerk. [I] sold my business in two days – just changed careers. And then he walked in one day and said, “I don’t want to run, I want to run for sheriff, you’re gonna run.” Oh okay, that’s how that’s how this all kind of went down.
Laughter
Brianna Lennon: I don’t really know if I have a follow-up to that, um, tell me more.
Adrienne Lee: So, I, like I said, I was a hairdresser for 18 years, and my body was giving out. And so it’s just one of those – I’d gone out for hip surgery, and like I said, he was needing someone in his office, and I just didn’t – I love my family, and I want to be with them, and I was married to my job. Like, I’m still married to this one, but that one was more consuming, in a way. So, I just took a leap of faith. I have no idea how this happened, but it did.
Eric Fey: So, how long did you work in the office prior to being clerk?
Adrienne Lee: I worked a year and a half in the office.
Eric Fey: A year and a half.
Adrienne Lee: Mhmm.
Brianna Lennon: So, what was the 2022 election like for you?
Adrienne Lee: Very eye opening, but it was fun. I liked it. I liked it a lot.
Brianna Lennon: So, I think one of the things that we want to touch on, at least for your unique experience in Vernon County, has been nationally, there’s been a lot of contentious election things that have popped up, but generally, Missouri has avoided that – I think you have a different experience, and I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about, not only being a new clerk, but a new clerk that is like immediately under scrutiny as we’re going into the 2024 election.
Adrienne Lee: There’s been a lot of change in my office, for sure. Whenever I took over, we got a brand new presiding commissioner that is involved with our committee that has caused the problems in our county. And it caused for a fair amount of my office to quit. So, I’ve had to learn a lot in a very short period of time. The joy of it is that I know how to do a lot of stuff in my office that I don’t think some of the stuff the previous clerk probably didn’t have to do. So, it’s been stressful and it’s been intriguing.
Eric Fey: I think, maybe, just to provide a little context without going into a whole bunch of detail about the specific instance. There’s a disagreement, obviously, over how the candidate filing process should work, and, in your case, it’s really an intra-party disagreement, and it has put you right in the middle of this, and you’re in your first term, and you said, “folks in your office have have quit,” and so, you’re kind of taking all this on and having to deal with this. You’ve ended up in the middle of this litigation that, you know, is a big deal across the state. Yeah. So, I think what I’ve been most curious about is how have you dealt with this? How have you coped with, you know, all this controversy that – and you’re just trying to follow the law?
Adrienne Lee: I’m just trying to follow the law and do what’s right by the candidates and for the citizens. And, as far as coping, I pray a lot, not going to lie, and I invested in a therapist because it has been very stressful. I’ve had medical issues that have popped up because of it. And it – so, I don’t know. It’s been very hard because, unfortunately, I have a history with the chairperson. So, it makes it extra complicated. I have a good family support system, and all of the county clerks have been very, very supportive.
Eric Fey: With everything that’s happened in your office and in your county – and that there has been this turnover in your office and you’ve had to take care of everything, essentially – why keep coming back? Like, why not just say, you know, “I didn’t sign up for this.”
Adrienne Lee: I’ve had a lot of people ask me that, and I’ve had a lot of people ask if I’m going to run again because it is a very hard first term, and our previous county clerk has apologized to me for putting me in the position that I have gotten into, but now it’s down to principle. It is down to principle. I do believe in fair and free elections, and I want transparency and I don’t feel that they should be able to choose the candidates. I think that the voters – that’s what we have a primary for – the voters should be able to decide.
Eric Fey: I was just curious if you have had the bandwidth to think about this, maybe, from a more 30,000 foot view – what advice, if any, would you give to other clerks or election officials that might find themselves in a similar position?
Adrienne Lee: Do what you think is right even if you feel that you are being pressed, pressed on by someone. If you feel it in your heart that it’s right, do what’s right by the people. I don’t know. It’s a very hard situation for me, and I don’t – I honestly don’t know how I feel at the moment. There’s been so much going on that I just – I haven’t had time to sit down and process too much also. Because it’s been a wrecking ball. It really has been.
Eric Fey: So, with the experience you’ve had since coming into the county clerk’s office, you’ve obviously learned a lot, but is there any particular piece of knowledge or skill you wish you would have had coming in to this role that you might recommend other people take on?
Adrienne Lee: Well, there’s quite a few things that I wish that I would have had a little bit more knowledge on whenever I was thrown into some of the things that I have, for example, payroll. That one’s extremely tricky for me, I’m not necessarily a numbers person, but I can make it work. So, that would have been extremely beneficial. But I don’t know, probably my – let’s see – my social skills.
Laughter
Adrienne Lee: I’m not a great public speaker. I get very nervous and I guess that’s probably the biggest thing – I don’t know how to present myself half the time. It’s a problem.
Eric Fey: That’s interesting for me to hear because of your prior occupation.
Adrienne Lee: I know.
Eric Fey: You talk to everybody constantly.
Adrienne Lee: Constantly, and I didn’t think about it. I guess I just didn’t think about it. Now, I think about it because my words matter. My words matter now. They didn’t matter then. I have to be very careful what I say.
Eric Fey: I really liked that you said that because it’s easy for a lot of folks to snipe at election officials or pick apart things, and so, our words matter and we have to be very careful about what we say.
Adrienne Lee: Yes, very much so.
Brianna Lennon: So obviously [you] have a lot of local stuff going on, but what I have been curious about is like, nationally, people that have been in the position have seen the position morph into a much more under the microscope kind of lens, having to be more outspoken, having to talk to the press more when before you could kind of just get by quietly.
Adrienne Lee: Right.
Brianna Lennon: And really just do your credit function and not worry about it. Did you have a sense when you came into the office in 2021, after all of that had started brewing in 2020 and 2021, that that might be expected of you?
Adrienne Lee: Yes.
Brianna Lennon: And you still wanted to do it?
Adrienne Lee: I did. I did. I think I might need my head examined sometimes. But no, I did. I really thought it was important and again, I – who my opponent was, from the history of my county, I just had to run. I just felt that I had to run, especially if nobody else was going to do it. So, like I said, I feel that we would be in a whole different position if I wouldn’t have done it. If I would have just sat as the election clerk.
Eric Fey: Are there any aspects of that you are particularly concerned about or something you’re very vigilant about now – knowing it’s gonna be an issue later on or?
Adrienne Lee: I’m not too worried about it only because I guess I’m mostly worried about making sure that we’ve had the ballots where they need to be and that I have everything set up and security is good. I’m a little intimidated just at the fact that it’s a presidential election, and I know that we will all be under scrutiny, and so, I just want to make sure that I dot my i’s and cross my t’s and make sure everything’s in place, so in case something does happen, I can show the chain of custody or whatnot.
Eric Fey: Yeah.
Brianna Lennon: Is there anything you’re looking forward to?
Adrienne Lee: I don’t know.
Brianna Lennon: Besides vacation.
Laughter
Adrienne Lee: Besides vacation. I’m looking forward to seeing how all this is go[ing to] turn out for sure because I know that – I feel like we’re doing a repeat of 2020. I didn’t expect that, and I’ve heard it was traumatizing, but hopefully – we will make it through it, and I’m looking forward to the end of it and having that first presidential election underneath my belt.
Laughter
Brianna Lennon: You’ve been listening to High Turnout Wide Margins, a podcast that explores local elections administration. I’m your host, Brianna Lennon alongside Eric Fey. A big thanks to KBIA and the Election Center for making this podcast possible. Our Managing Editor is Rebecca Smith. Managing Producer is Aaron Hay. Our Associate Producer is Katie Quinn, and our Digital Producer is Mark Johnson. This has been High Turnout Wide Margins. Thanks for listening.
Our Hosts
Brianna Lennon
After serving as Assistant Attorney General in the Missouri attorney general’s office and as Deputy Director of Elections in the Missouri secretary of state’s office, Brianna Lennon made the decision to pursue election administration at the local level. She was elected county clerk in Boone, Missouri, in 2018, making her responsible for conducting elections for more than 120,000 registered voters.
Eric Fey
Eric Fey is a lifelong resident of St. Louis County, Missouri, who fell in love with election administration as a teenage poll worker. He has worked in the field for a decade, and became director of elections in 2015. He’s on the executive board of the Missouri Association of County Clerks and Election Authorities, and has observed elections in twelve countries, including Ukraine, Sri Lanka, and Uzbekistan.